As DCrip suggested, starting a new thread to consolidate any further Neo Geo chatter.

Lots of Neo Geo discussion in these recent threads:
http://www.jaguarsector.com/index.php?showtopic=30553
http://www.jaguarsector.com/index.php?showtopic=30345

Neo Geo is another awesome system, but it's still too rich for my blood. I do still regret selling off my NGCD system though. I used to have quite a bit of fun with it. Being on a fixed income sucks.

I rambled for a while in the first link above about building an MVS supergun. It's about as easy as building a PC and costs $120-$150 depending on how fancy you get with components. Once you get an MVS setup, Neo Geo commons are really cheap. Not for everyone since it's a little bit of a project, but if you really wanted to get into Neo Geo it's the cheapest way to go and has the most available games.

You gonna' build one for me? I'd pay for it. My eyes aren't what they used to be or I'd do it myself.

It's VERY easy to build using one of these Vogatek superguns. Unfortunately, he only has the SCART RGB Mk. 3 version listed right now.

http://cgi.ebay.com/MK-III-neogeo-mvs-arca...=item3a58ab8bba

The only non-standard parts that you need to add are the controller ports and video cable. Sending you a PM with details of what I can help with...

Grabbed a cheap Neo Geo MVS cart lot. $45 shipped for KoF 99, Sam Sho 4, Sam Sho 1, and an unlabeled mystery cart. The unlabeled cart has a blue shell, so there are only a few late 90's titles that it could be... I'm hoping for a Metal Slug X, but it's probably just KoF 98 since that's one of the most common blue carts.


Anyway, wanted to post as an example of how cheap MVS games are... $11.25 each shipped. If I order boxes to match my other games, the shockboxes/inserts/postage will make the boxes more expensive than the carts.




EDIT: The unlabeled blue mystery cart is... KoF 98. Still a great set of games and the other 3 all have clean US cart labels with serial numbers intact. (Serial numbers are usually scraped off or markered out on cheap MVS carts)

AS FOR BUILDING...
your own CMVS1, it must be nice to have the technical inclination to attempt a project by yourself. I however, am strictly a gamer. I buy the consoles, games etc and play them. I have no interest in the construction - whether it be some 'easy' soldering or 'cutting' a few holes here and there... I'm sure you get my point.

THE NEO•GEO...
is indeed an awesome machine - the best games console ever I'd say!

As I have mentioned before, I don't actually own any NeoGeo hardware BUT I do plan on investing at some point. Considering the cost associated with owning and buying for the NeoGeo, I think it may be one of the last consoles I ever buy... unless I take the CMVS route.

IN FACT...
I have a couple of questions for you! I am in actual fact (short-term) considering a CMVS1, however, I have a very specific 'design' in mind... controversial as it may be! I'm after an AES > MVS conversion as my CMVS... basically an AES converted into an MVS! This is my preferred design, as I'm not at all keen on the other ones I have seen (a shell of metal with a rectangular cut-out OR a MegaDrive II!!). Do you think you could build (me!) one of those?? I'd be awfully interested if you could, or indeed, know someone who could! Failing being able to meet my stringent outlines, I may just have to settle for a good old AES - Shame I'll NEVER be able to afford Pulstar, Blazing Star, Rage of the Dragons, Ninja Masters or SS5sp!!!

Also, I'm not a fan of the ABCD button configs. I'd prefer A= HP, B= HK, C=LP & D=LK... so, are these configurable either in Uni-Bios or in the AES settings for the games? I'm curious.

Another thing... do you think it would be possible to make a CMVS or AES read 6-button inputs?? For example, I would love to be able to use a Saturn Controller or 6-button stick and have the Hardware 'somehow' recognize the 5 and 6 buttons as HP & LP and HK & LK... if you see where I'm going with this (SS5/5sp, SS1 & SS2, WHP etc).

Honestly, I don't think I'd have the patience to build a CMVS. Building a CMVS involves hand-wiring each of the pins off the JAMMA harness into an attractive casing... either a shell from an existing console or a homemade case. CMVS units are usually expensive because there's a lot of build time. Also, I suspect that if a wire was knocked loose when the unit is moved it could cause major problems, so some on-going maintenance might be required anyway. Too time-consuming and expensive for me.

The Vogatek supergun is a small, 15GBP circuit board that consolidates most of the JAMMA wiring mess to standard connectors. All the JAMMA power-related pins are routed to an ATX PC power supply connector. All the video-related pins are routed to a SCART RGB connector. Audio is routed to a headphone jack. (uses passive speakers only) The only actual 'wiring' is for the controller ports, but it's just putting wires into holes and tightening the screws. Any soldering is optional to add extra functionality.

As far as building a case or enclosure, I abandoned the idea after getting my first couple arcade PCBs. There's no standard for the JAMMA connector height or surrounding components on arcade PCBs, so any cosmetic casing around the Vogatek would just get in the way. If you wanted to marry a dedicated Vogatek with an MVS motherboard it would probably be easy to build a small enclosure, but it isn't really necessary. My setup isn't pretty, but it was cheap and it works great. The way I look at it anything more is paying $$ for aesthetics and I'd rather spend the $$ on games. (or shockboxes)


Not sure about re-assigning buttons in the unibios or AES setup... I'd have to check. But, the Vogatek makes it easy to change button mapping directly. Just loosen screws and arrange the controller port wiring however you want.

I don't think there would be any way to make Neo Geo games recognize extra buttons. You could easily wire any of the controller's buttons as A,B,C,D but the JAMMA connector only supports 4 buttons per player. You'd need to build a custom circuit to overlap buttons 5 or 6 as a simultaneous press on the corresponding pair of A,B,C,D inputs. Easier to just push two buttons at once...

THANKS FOR YOUR ADVICE...
even though it would appear we have opposite opinions on the points raised (i.e. 'Easier to just push two buttons at once'). It's having to do this that ruins many of the NG's premium titles for me... takes me back to pressing both buttons for jump in Double Dragon! It's just so impractical - thus why SS3 & SS4 changed to a 4-button layout. However, I like your idea about the custom circuit. I'd much rather investigate that possibility as opposed to the whole 2 buttons thing. Seriously, I'd sooner not buy a game than take the 2-button risk!

ALSO, REGARDING...
aesthetics etc regarding consoles, superguns and the like; I personally would like a nice looking CMVS myself, and I think, for me, it is worth spending the extra on... as opposed to games. However, I do understand your standpoint... who cares what it looks like as long as it plays the games? Unfortunately... I do.

In respect of the Vogatek/Supergun... I can understand why you would forfeit a casing due to the nature of the shape irregularity of the PCBs.

I WOULD ALSO...
imagine we have similar taste in games. I'd be keen to learn of your preferred games for specific systems (shmups, fighters etc).

I did a quick search about adding buttons for Neo Geo combined presses and found this old thread:
http://www.neo-geo.com/forums/showthread.php?t=190184

The explanation seems right, and it would only require 4 diodes and some wire.


Thinking about your request for a CMVS in an AES shell, there's only one 1-slot MVS model with a vertical cart slot. If the MV-1C motherboard doesn't fit properly in an AES console shell there might be additional work/cost involved... if it's even possible. The MV-1C has some limitations too... it has a soldered bios, so there's extra work to add a unibios socket. The MV-1C also needs a small mod for stereo sound, and it has no memory card connector. I ended up getting both MV-1 and MV-1C motherboard models. I use the MV-1 like a virtual AES via unibios and a memory card reader. I usually just use the MV-1C with the multicart. A couple of the late release games have compatibility issues with the ancient MV-1 motherboard. I paid around $50 each (plus postage) for the motherboards and the MV-1 came with the unibios installed... MVS motherboards are pretty cheap. More info on the different versions here:
http://www.hardmvs.com/html/PCBcompare.htm

If you don't mind paying extra for appearance and less risk of maintenance, you might just want an AES console and an MVS->AES converter. Probably cost even more than a CMVS though... esp if you want a unibios installed. And, MVS multicarts don't like MVS->AES converters so that might be a concern too.



As far as comparing favorite games or hidden gems, just start a thread...




EDIT: Also wanted to note that a couple of the 1-slot Neo Geo MVS motherboard models have controller ports on them. So there's no need to deal with hand wiring anything on the Vogatek supergun if you only wanted to use standard 4 button Neo Geo ports. Or, if any of the JS2 regulars decide to wire up their own Vogatek, I've got a few extra Neo Geo controller port stubs that I'd pass along cheap...

Well, taking the plunge again and getting a Neo Geo CD system again. Been awhile as the other one I had went bye bye sadly. Hopefully this will not be the case this time around . . .

THAT'LL BE RAVENS...
NGCD console then eh? Very nice. Great starter package really as it contains a lot of decent titles to get you off the ground (AOF2, KOF 94, FF3, SW2 etc). I also REALLY like GanGan/AoDK, although it's an acquired taste tbh

I know those DVD boxed games also have the original cases, but I actually think the DVD cases look pretty smart - of course, I haven't seen them up close though

A pad AND a stick too - the best of both worlds... nice. Personally, I actually prefer 'that' stick (kidney shape) over the classic style one - not aesthetically, but in terms of build and feel.

If you fancy any advice or recommendations (based on tastes and experiences), hit me up with a PM! I'll get back to you with as much help as I can...

Happy NEO•GEO gaming to come...

Hey dude, I'm all good man. I actually had a NEO GEO CD system for quite some time but I had to sell it and the games, sadly. I am aware of the choice, and awesome titles for the system though. I adore the system as I am a huge SNK fan. I do still have a few of my old discs though as I wasn't about to sell my Metal Slug discs, knowing that I would have the system again down the road. I still have my Last Resort disc and one of the Ghost Pilots games too, just can't recall which one at the moment. Whoops, almost forgot my Magician Lord disc that I still have also!

With all the current excitement surrounding the upcoming release of Fast Striker on Dreamcast I just now thought to check out what the original Neo Geo version of the game looks like at Youtube.

Having viewed this vid and this one too, amongst others too at Youtube, it to my eyes looks to be a vertically scrolling 2D shmup of great promise.

I've not chosen to place a pre-order (DC version) as to be completely honest I'm a little underwhelmed at the prospect of playing yet another "bullet-hell" vertically scrolling 2D shmup. Saying that's not to be interpreted as me in any way criticising this game's potential though as I'm buzzed to see yet another quality game coming out soon on both consoles all these on from both systems' commercial demise.

Welcome back to the NGCD T2K.

I'll be getting Fast Striker on Dreamcast, always interested in new shmups. I'm a little disappointed there isn't a NGCD release though. I'd prefer to buy it on Neo Geo hardware instead of a DC port. The MVS version is really expensive... priced and marketed for arcade operators.

I ALREADY...
pre-ordered this bad boy a week or so ago. I actually ordered the bundle - I'll play the standard release and keep the L.E. sealed. That's how I roll (unless it's 'shrink wrapped' - that so-called seal is pretty worthless imo).

AND IT'S FUNNY DC...
I'm actually overwhelmed by the fact I get another Bullet Hell Shmup full-stop! They are, by far, my fave type of Shmup - fast, frantic, energetic, insurmountable odds, crazy power-ups etc. I love it!

Will be interested to see just how good this game is considering NG:DEV & Rene Hellwigs previous efforts: Last Hope & Dux. Whilst both games were good (graphically amazing!) they left a bit of an empty space for me - somehow good games, but not great. I think it's that definitive 'underwhelming' Euro edge they both have. I'm hoping FStriker has more of a crazy Takumi or Cave feel to it whilst still maintaining what makes it play and feel unique... ramble ramble ramble! Sorry!!

AND, NO DOUBT...
you know Tom that FStriker is outside of the NGCD's tech capabilities? And like you said, unless you wanna fork £500 for the L.E. Shockbox MVS version, £30 on the DC will have to do!

Have you seen any comments about why the NGCD couldn't handle Fast Striker? It would probably have to load between levels (or mid-level?) but is there some other limitation beyond the NGCD memory?

NO, I THINK...
that is exactly the reason - memory limitations. FStriker on AES is 1560MB!! This is surely beyond the NGCD's wildest dreams??

1560MB? Damn.. I just went and watched a video on YouTube, and it's easy to see where all that memory went! But holy crap, it makes that old NeoGeo hardware shine!

Never thought I'd see the NeoGeo pushed beyond it's limits like that. Very nice!

MONKEY!!!!!!

Re: Personal preferences for the "bullet hell" sub-genre of shmups,
Each to their own, as they say! Like I alluded to in my previous post I suspect my relative lack of enthusiasm in this specific instance isn't in consequence of this one game but of a present feeling I've kinda overdosed in playing bullet hell shmups these past couple of years. Yep, I "know" that should I not pre-order the game I'll doubtlessly soon after come to regret the decision. Que sera, sera...

I TOTALLY identified with what you were seeking to get at in relation to Last Hope and Dux - especially so in the case of Dux, imho. Your insightful point regarding the nature and context of any European association is more than understood. Along such lines I can't help but recall memories of numerous other shmups such as most of what was released on Commodore's Amiga series (Amiga fanboys out there please note the use of the word "most", not "all"! ) and more recently the incidence of Söldner-X: Himmelsstürmer (PS3/PSN). Close but no cigar, to coin a well-worn phrase. To perhaps foolishly risk making a broader equivalent comparison to that of the platform game genre I'll deign to call upon the examples of Crash Bandicoot, Spyro the Dragon and Croc relative to Super Mario 64 as quite decent quality games that despite including, to varying degrees, most ingredients to tick the boxes of what a platformer of that console generation would have been deemed necessary to possess they all in their own ways failed to hit the magical sweet spot Nintendo's game did in the hearts of most gamers. Put simply, most shmups of a European origin have generally speaking lacked "soul" relative to the best of what's come out of Japan over the years.

Here's hoping Fast Striker truly has what it takes as the signs so far look very good indeed.

Fast Striker demostrate that SNK could have been releasing incredible arcade games even now with the same old school board, 20 years after the release of the MVS!! SNK POWER!!!

I think the NeoCD can manage FS because the hardware is the same but the loading times can be really long, and you will need 3 cds... For games with more than 200Mb I recommend a MVS or an AES.

My favorite SNK system is the AES because it´s a console but the cheaper way to play the real deal (without eternal loading screens killing the action) is to pick up an MVS and take out the video, controllers and power supply exits from the board or pick a supergun. Most of the classic games are very cheap and you have multi carts with the late releases of the board.

I had my first NeoCD in 1995 Christmas and I loved it.. Sweet memories!!

YEP...
what can I say? You nailed it!

Ah yes... 'those' Amiga shmups: Apidya, X-Out & Z-Out, Project X etc... not the best source material for inspiration, eh? (I'm looking at YOU Soldner X... although, SX2 is actually pretty damn good!!)


AGREED...
and normally I can judge from video's etc. how good a game plays or will be overall (no, it's not a 'gift' - it's just experience ) but to be honest, I have deliberately avoided any videos thus far. I really want the game to be fresh when I get around to finally playing it. I can make a firm opinion a week on from then!

Fingers crossed...

Hey, anyone know anywhere online that still sells Last Hope for the Neo Geo CD? I need this game. Awesome stuff for sure.

The developer had some used Last Hope NGCDs in their webstore recently, but looks like they're gone. The only one left there is in a combo pack of the DC & NGCD versions:
http://www.ngdevdirect.com/product_info.ph...;products_id=31

If you only wanted the NGCD version you could probably resell the DC version on ebay and get some of your money back.

Yeah, I saw that but have no clue what the translation of US to Euros is right now. I guess I could look into it though.

I use www.xe.com for exchange rates... the site has a quick converter just below the currency table.

The Neo Geo CD should be able to do it. It's the same hardware. The NGCD has 7 Mbytes (56 mb) of ram. But based on the videos, there would definitely be between stage loading, and possible even mid level loading.

The fact they are still trying to get rid of old Last Hope stock, perhaps there just isn't enough interest in the NGCD anymore.

I THINK YOU'RE RIGHT...
I think they're is much less interest in the NGCD nowadays.

Also, even if it could be done, I reckon FStriker on a NGCD would be pretty damn painful! Don't ya think??

Good to see you around btw! Don't see you around NGFL much these days? Hope all is well??

I'm sure it would put the King of Fighers games to shame



Good to see you buddy! I'm more of a lurker than a poster. You can also find me at AA (not alcoholics anonymous) and Sega-16.

Looks like SNKP is done with game development. The KoF series has been their only new product the last couple years, and other news showed a crumbling company and horrible working environment. They might try to milk their past glory with future compilations and Neo Geo Station releases, but new development seems done. RIP

http://dreamcancel.com/?p=472

I'D HEARD ABOUT THIS...
a little while ago and still unsure about how I feel.

KOFXIII could well be (have been?) the 'break' SNKP were hoping for, especially after how lack-lustre XII was. Perhaps we'll never know now?

I at least hope that XIII see's it's deserved console release. Surely they could gauge their future development interests on XIII's 'success'?

TRUTH BE TOLD...
in the NEO•GEO community as a whole, anything Playmore or Eolith related tends to be generally frowned upon - which is a shame imo. As such though, I don't think many of the so-called 'hardcore' fans will shed a tear over this. Furthermore I think some (many) will see this as closure on what some would say to be SNK's 'lesser' years. Personally though, I've been MORE than happy with SNKP's efforts right up until KOFXII (not including!) - titles including KOF03, SVCChaos, NGBColiseum, KOFXI etc. They're ALL really great games...

So, yeah, potentially... RIP SNK(P)

I really like some of the SNKP games too. Their overall output may not measure up to SNK's creativity or diversity, but they've put together some quality games. And, they've kept SNKs legacy alive for a new generation.

I've seen some interesting speculation on other forums that this might lead to SNKP allowing other 'studios' to use their IPs. Anything from CvS 3 to someone like Team Ninja updating Metal Slug. So, maybe SNKP's internal development has had enough chances... another developer might be able to truly revitalize some of their franchises. Just speculation, but it might be the ultimate silver lining. They've already licensed some of the KoF roster to appear in an upcoming JRPG from another developer.

Looks like SNKP's exit was just a rumor.

The official story: "In response to Internet rumors from earlier this week, SNK is planning to release a full slate of games in 2011 and expects to continue publishing games worldwide for many years to come."--An SNK Playmore representative.


http://www.gamespot.com/news/6286721.html

They have two games being released to arcades tomorrow in fact:

http://arcadeheroes.com/2011/01/19/kof-rem...24th-to-nesica/

VERY COOL...
so these offer online play via the arcade machine I presume? Nice!

I already own both these for PS2 and I can reassuredly say that they are BOTH very awesome titles. Possible the best KOFs ever...

So, what makes KoF 2002 stand out as one of the better entries of the series?

I know KoF 98 was basically the 'dream match' of the early entries and it's usually considered the pinnacle of the series by die hard fans. And KoF 98 UM on Type X / PS2 was a major update with more characters, more backgrounds, and many gameplay tweaks.

KoF 2002 UM seems to have a massive roster and many gameplay tweaks from the original, but was the original KoF 2002 really revered as one of the better entries? Any reason why this was chosen for an UM update?

I currently have KoF 98, KoF 99, and KoF 2003 on MVS. A few other scattered entries on NGCD, Saturn, DC, PS2 but I don't have either version of KoF 2002. Am I missing something special?



EDIT: My 100-in-1 MVS cart includes KoF 2002... I'll play a little sometime soon to see if I want to grab a legit cart.

It does not add online matches that I know of - what NESiCA is, it's something like Steam but for arcades. It allows arcade operators to download and store new arcade games to a platform as opposed to buying a new PCB for it. It also unifies save cards into one system for all the games ported to the platform. BlazBlue Continuum Shift II was a launch title for the platform.

I know that in the fighting community a lot of players are upset about it since it also charges more per play and you don't have a specific PCB for a game since you get multiple games on a TypeX2 board.

AFAIK, the KOF98FE has a few extra tweaks that the PS2 version and arcade versions didn't have. Not sure yet if they changed anything about KOF2002UM for this, other than adding NESiCA card support.

Here's a pretty cool video of the Neo-Geo. - Link

How's this for a console mod'? A consolised MVS made from real wood!

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2011-05-...geo-cmvs-review

I missed this. I have to admit that this is cool. Not sure how it would work for fire safety though . . .

I finally found the Neo Geo programmers manual for anyone who's interested in it. It's a very hard document to find online but I finally got it. No more second hand account guesses about how the Neo Geo works; it's the official manual from SNK not some programmers rendition.

Nice, Ace! Thanks

Here's the website I got it from... Very good information about everything Neo Geo.

http://www.hardmvs.com/

Check this out:

http://kotaku.com/5879082/the-return-of-the-neo+geo

Crazy stuff.

Looks cool in an iPhone 4 clone kinda way!

The hardware looks great... esp if it has a NGPC style clicky d-pad. But, if this is true, WHY do SNK insist on re-re-re-releasing the same lineup of ancient Neo Geo 'Classics'? There are only a few substitutions from the SNK Arcade Classics 1 compilation, and I think this list is slightly worse. Why would anyone buy a separate handheld to play a selection that's nearly identical to the $10 PSP/PS2/Wii compilation? Most of these are also available individually for the Neo Geo Station on PS3/PSP.

If this was reasonably priced and offered games that weren't available on PSP then it might be interesting.

Strange that it has four shoulder buttons when, afaik, the Neo Geo controller and pad didn't have any. Maybe this device will be compatible with more than just Neo Geo games...

I checked into this a little more, and it looks like SNK just licensed the name/logo and small set of games to a Chinese manufacturer. Someone who also makes Super Famicom & Megadrive portables. It will probably be hackable to run other emulators/roms from an SD card, but might not have enough processing power or memory to emulate later Neo Geo games...